The military is where the fun toys are all at! So, part of people's problem is with the origins of ABA. Assortative Mating And Autism | Slate Star Codex EDIT: While their children are clearly at higher risk for autistic traits, I think they want to know whether they have higher risk for the most severe forms of the syndrome, including intellectual disability and poor functioning. Theres obviously no reason genetic factors would aggregate in a nice linear fashion in that kind of situation. First, the studies. Wow! required to answer an examiners quetsions[sic]. 2. Many such cases with Aspergers (me too), whereas for high functioning autism the deficit is inverted for processing vs visuo-spatial. Generally high end career civil servants and similar. Strongly agree. But studies show autistic people generally have lower intelligence than neurotypical controls, often much lower. in particle physics at age 15, millionaire at age 30 type of stuff. The autism epidemic may have been caused by assortative mating (people with subclinical autism marrying other people with subclinical autism producing children who are autistic) The sort of people that would do polygenic scoring for IQ are exactly the sort of people whose children might already be at risk for autism (high systemisers) Thus it is perhaps unsurprising that our data suggests that the contribution of common variants may be more prominent in high-functioning ASD cases such as Aspergers syndrome. do people predisposed to have autistic kids tend to have them later? A strong preference for routine. Autism As A Disorder Of High Intelligence, A link between Tay-Sachs gene and intelligence, https://hennyk.com/autism-and-perfect-pitch/, https://hennyk.com/book-perfect-pitch-in-the-key-of-autism/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPZn4x3uOac, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd54l8gfi7M, distinction between people with high functioning autism and Aspergers. But African slaves survived. Slightly differently: Being gifted makes it harder to take certain things seriously. Good clarifying question. Well, much debate here gets into the distinction between people with high functioning autism and Aspergers, due to a muddling at that end of the scale. If you get much past that, all intelligible sound will cease and be replaced by a terrible noise that wasnt exhibited _anywhere_ prior in the range of the knob. Other interesting question if the Flynn effect is more important than genetics and our mean IQ is 15 points higher than 100 years ago: where are all the geniuses? My understanding is that gender dysphoria is associated with certain structures or traits of the brain- transwomen tend to have certain identifiable feminized brain structures, and transmen to have masculinized brain structures. Agreed. Could you elaborate? Perhaps it will help if I ask a question. No ICU or anything that severe, but still something that differentiates her from the other children. Thus, the question under discussion becomes does every highly intelligent person have some of these autism-linked genes, or are there other paths to high intelligence that do not involve these genes?. While autism (and Asperger) has a lot of symptoms, there is one thing I noticed early on: people on the spectrum tend to take words very literally. Autistic people being diagnosed with intellectual disabilities before theyre able to to talk and not really being undiagnosed when theyve demonstrated higher levels of ability is very much a thing. The talented ones dont seem to put extra effort into being impressive for others sake. iq | Slate Star Codex For each parameters, there are many alleles in different locations that can bump the parameters a certain directionmake the babys head[1] a little bigger, for example. So the technically autistic community could well be more intelligent on average than the general population, with the people who are actually labeled autistic being a particularly low-functioning subset of that population. Hard to specify. Intelligence may be very much the same way. It is where his bread is buttered professionally, but I wish he would think more deeply about it. Id say the people in my field are shifted about half a sigma toward introverted, toward socially awkward, and toward tending to become obsessive about their interests/hobbies, but that leaves a lot of people whod seem pretty normal in most ways. Fall short of that threshold and you have a pile of severely broken processes. A lot of people are using social aptitude as a proxy because thats at least something measureable (at least in concept, if not in practice). From a certain perspective, it merges with normal. control children (though see the discussion here) for some debate over how seriously to take this; I am less sure this is accurate than most of the other statistics mentioned here. As long as I kept useful inventions flowing out of my lab, I think hed pay me well and insulate me from social criticism. Only 3% of autistic people were found to have IQs above 115, even though 15% of the population should be at this level. As for genetics, well, my IQ is ~135, and my wifes is right there with me (~125). You mentioned height, which I think is a good example too we have studies (possibly not good ones) showing that taller people have better outcomes, get treated nicer, are more attractive but people who get too tall have bad medical problems, shorter life expectancy. The damn thing has basically come true! Find company research, competitor information, contact details & financial data for SYNPSH of CROIX, HAUTS DE FRANCE. I find it absolutely bizarre that the intelligence of kids who dont fit in is often ignored. For example, in World War I, we saw an increase in head injuries after we started giving soldiers helmets but the reason wasnt that soldiers wearing helmets were more likely to get injured, but because previously, the injuries to their head simply would have killed them and they would have been marked as dead, not as having head injuries. The idea is that autistic children have more and finer-grained category boundaries, causing them to over-differentiate similar phonemes that most speakers use interchangeably. There are huge practical and financial incentives within our system to diagnose all of these sets of kids with some kind of medicalized disorder, regardless of whether any underlying physical mechanism is understood or present (and sometimes it is, but many different developmental issues can lead you down each of these roads). Higher IQ people have lower infant mortality rates than lower IQ people. James Comeys twitter and book are exactly what Id expect from a career civil service person. Thats exactly what we observe here. I guess in a context-specific sense, normal is being defined as not-autistic? Also, the Gardner paper has analyzed autistic patients fathers by subtype of intelligence, and there is a nonsignificant but pretty suggestive tendency for them to have higher-than-normal verbal intelligence; certainly no signs of high verbal intelligence preventing autism. What will be interesting to see if we get weeded out before getting close to the top, and if the breakdown will stay the same. The strong differences in estimated SNP heritability between ASD cases with and without intellectual disability, and highest in Aspergers provide genetic evidence of longstanding observations. It would explain the association of genes for intelligence with autism (holding foundation strength constant, the taller the tower, the more likely a failure). I have many fewer data points on low functioning autistic people, who I have mostly met through church. So by comparison, I could imagine that theres a bunch of gene variants that increase limb length, and that if you have a certain number of these you get some nice Usain Bolt proportions that help you win races. ), There is a (high functioning) autistic musician named Henny Kupferstein who spends a lot of time teaching piano to autistic kids. Being extroverted and popular is one of the biggest predictors of success and longevity, probably more important than IQ frankly although I dont have the studies in front of me. This is true in a sense, but also alters what we mean by normal. 43 votes, 61 comments. Go up a level and you can mash a bunch of sequential notes on a piano with one left out of the middle and they can tell you the highest note, lowest note, and the one you left out. The brain has hyperparameters, just like an artificial neural network. What are the percentages of children who fall in each group? Or rather, that the concept of Asperger autism is more related to giftedness, and not to autism. Low IQ fathers are less likely to be available due to death/imprisonment/not being around anymore/maybe not even knowing who the father is. While autism (or at least diagnosed autism) is rarer in girls, its very much not unheard of. Any gene that increases A in a normal human makes that human more intelligent by pushing A closer to 10. This study of three large birth cohorts finds a correlation between genetic risk for autism and cognitive ability (beta = 0.07). Other times, the conversations would seem weird as hell in most placesdiscussions of physics or evolution or game theory or genetics or whatever, with a high background level of assumed knowledge. Note that due to conflict of interest she doesn't treat people in the NYC rationalist social scene. My current boss. Level measurements also seem consistent with possible causes being differences in responsiveness to oxytocin rather than differences in normal concentration. Brilliant, productive people dont spend time either wishing to be normal, wishing to be different, or obsessing how they are different from normal. Theyre simply too busy getting things done for a triviality that reduces to dumb averages to matter to them. Pretending that people with autism diagnoses are typical of people with autism is useful when trying to treat the symptoms of autism; but ignoring less symptomatic people results in ineffective studies when trying to figure out causes and effects. According to the most recent findings on the subject, its not many developed countries, its only Scandinavia. Hence the need to go along with pointless social rituals. This has held me back at networking events, but overall, there is some tolerance for being abnormal out of the office. There are almost no exceptions. I havent seen any real evidence for it, or even any real support for the idea as a serious theory. MealSquares is a "nutritionally complete" food that contains a balanced diet worth of nutrients in a few tasty easily measurable units. That leads me to the following guess. Slate Star Codex, which sprung up in 2013, helped her develop a "calibrated trust" in the medical system. This friend had been working for many years with Leroy Hood. Auditory learning is therefore the only accessible means for learning prior to the bridging of other brain functions. . Currently offering travel medical insurance for nomads, and global health insurance for remote teams. You dont need a tower-and-foundation model to explain how both higher than usual prevalence of intelligence-associated genes in autistic individuals and extremely intelligent non-autistic people. * Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration First, these two children were the only children where my wife was working while she was pregnant. Gender dysphoria. Other interesting question if the Flynn effect is more important than genetics and our mean IQ is 15 points higher than 100 years ago: where are all the geniuses? I think youd need to ask them about their internal experiences, but Id guess a lot of the people you find unusually functional arent putting a lot of effort into fitting in. My vague mental model is that there are a bunch of different parameters that have to be within a certain range to get good performance from your brain. Why on Earth one would assume that the effect of genes that contribute to IQ should be linearly additive and increasing to ad infinitum. As a practical matter of course these disorder clusters can easily overlap and often do, as seen in the most recent DSM when they allowed co-diagnosis of autism and ADHD for the first time (by popular demand pretty much!). Epistemic status: not too bad, certainly good enough to have my old head of department, a grand old neurogeneticist interested in this if still maintaining healthy scientific skepticism. And also reproducing younger (banking frozen eggs and/or sperm early for the IVF). List 1 Avoids eye contact Doesn't smile Doesn't reach out to be picked up Rejects your efforts to calm, soothe, and connect Doesn't seem to notice or care when you leave them alone Cries inconsolably Doesn't coo or make sounds In sum, the heterogeneity of risk factors, brain impairments, and non-diagnostic symptoms in an ASD-defined sample blocks valid scientific inference. The Gardner study seems to suggest its a very weakly elevated risk, maybe only 1.1x or 1.2x relative risk. Humans have been selectively breeding themselves since the dawn of civilization, even if we werent consciously aware of it; reproductively speaking, the traits that are selected for in an organized society are bound to differ than those that wouldve been selected for in the wild. I would expect a challenge, in testing the intelligence of Autistics. There was a Conversations With Tyler podcast with Michelle Dawson (link here including transcript) where this was discussed. Non-genetic factors. As a result, we could have similar imbalances. The difference between high and low functioning autistic children is significant. Spoiler alert: ASD in adults was estimated to be 1%. The line here has an extra close-paragraph symbol, > (though see the discussion here) for some debate over how seriously to take this; I am less sure this is accurate than most of the other statistics mentioned here), which I assume is the one missing from the later section here. The mean could easily shift without creating a bunch of geniusesit is probably much easier to raise the IQ of average or above average people, just through some relatively basic improvements and guidance. This would also explain why theres a larger gap in autism diagnoses between rich and poor blacks and Hispanics than rich and poor whites more affluent blacks and Hispanics have access to the same resources as affluent whites do, while poor ones have worse resources than poor whites. For example: As the learning rate increases, a network becomes able to learn new information more quickly. Like many DSM diagnoses it is a junkheap of often unrelated symptoms wrapped up in a single label for essentially politically reasons. Beeminder's an evidence-based willpower augmention tool that collects quantifiable data about your life, then helps you organize it into commitment mechanisms so you can keep resolutions. autism polygenic risk scores attached to Tinder profiles And that finds that only 15% have intellectual disabilities. Now imagine that someone was in that condition but *couldnt* turn it off. the classic stereotype.). I believe autism is largely genetic and the genes that are associated with autism mainly perform functional roles in brain development and brain function. In the graph of relatives, are autists typically on the border or inside of high-IQ regions? I was under the impression, that IQ was culturally biased, as DNA Markers would be. I dont know their actual IQs, but Im very confident a lot of people in my bubble are nice, funny, enjoyable, sports-watching people with 99% intelligence. Social relationships are not difficult and people who cannot navigate them are displaying a serious deficit. Doing some [fundamental] discovery is harder and harder. If the mums with low functioning autistic children, the ones I spoke to described the fathers as losers or deadbeats. And her failure to understand social cues lets her be taken advantage of by lower-quality men, who have sexually abused her on multiple occasions. I think an important possibility to consider is that some or all of the correlation were observing is simply due to bias in the data were using, rather than any actual relationship between high IQ and autism. Its not because simply being small or being large or having a flat face are inherently unhealthy traits; there are other species that are much smaller than Yorkies, much larger than Great Danes, and have flatter faces than Pugs, without suffering any problems as a result. I actually find it rather consistent with the idea that our brain chemistry is tuned to work with a given level of hormones/neurotransmitters produced by our gut bacteria as per Maybe Your Zoloft Stopped Working Because A Liver Fluke Tried To Turn Your Nth-Great-Grandmother Into A Zombie. Take these away and you arrive at something that seems like an effortless confidence and freedom. She has an article on her website here: https://hennyk.com/autism-and-perfect-pitch/ and a book: https://hennyk.com/book-perfect-pitch-in-the-key-of-autism/. They also have higher rates of having children with multiple partners. An analogy: Imagine you have a sound system with a microphone, speakers, and a mixing board. Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if part of the link between autism and high intelligence mightnt be explained by a non-linear relationship akin to that between arousal and performance. Drink your Brawndo! I recognised my son was different at about 15 months old. Dr. Laura Baur is a psychiatrist with interests in literature review, reproductive psychiatry, and relational psychotherapy; see her website for more. Low-functioning autism has all kinds of genetic linkages to all kinds of different genetic syndromes that cause brain damage, damage that often extends beyond autistic symptoms. You could compare those estimates for IQ to those for height. Also also, Crespi is one of those scientists who constantly has much more interesting theories than anyone else (eg), and this makes me suspicious. 2. At least part of the story is that there are at least three different causes of autism. Reading about this seems a little bit strange at first, but I must say, I teach in the mathematics department of a university, and I observe this everyday in my best students. I am not particularly confident in the theory either in its parts or in whole. I believe this is also the case for artificial neural networks, unless you are in pathological regimes that are too unstable to be useful. (Always Sunny parodied this phenomenon with Mac, who only works out his glamour muscles.). The bit about Comey honestly just seems like partisan sniping to me. And yes, I know the survey showed that the average SSC reader had an IQ of 138, but Im extremely skeptical of that finding too. I think, everywhere. Maybe one bias from my statement is Im young, and many of my smart friends are also young. >They are being positively selected, ie increasing with every generation, presumably because people with the genes are having more children than people without them. The Gardner study seems to suggest its a very weakly elevated risk, maybe only 1.1x or 1.2x relative risk. I then play out both parts of the conversation from memory as their mouth gapes open.). Plausibly, a certain amount of narrowness and rigidity of focus will improve cognitive performance, whereas too much will cause impairment by making it too hard to get the big picture, switch attention and deal with competing stimuli etc. for which certain genetic inputs might be extremely valuable but there are numerous different ways to arrive at the end point of being good at the game, and numerous different ways that even people genetically gifted in some important capacity can end up being bad at playing the overall game. (Then also add to that the fact that people making a big deal out of Wow you can do this thing! can be super unpleasant). My outside view intuition is that gut bacteria are the new priming and also literally HTTLPR. Score: A bit of motivation before asking a question: my boss has a daughter. The results from the large trial seem consistent with there being a yet-undifferentiated subtype of autism that responds moderately to significantly. surveyed ~4000 MENSA members and found that in addition to being at a signficant increase in risk not just in ASDs and mood disorders but also in food allergies, asthma and 2x RR of autoimmune conditions compared to the general population. Yes. If thats the case, if the Flynn effect ever slows down or goes into reverse wed be in quite a bit of trouble, and Scandanavia could be the canary in the coalmine for that process. Genes are not something where you can say, this is good, more of it will be better. Quite a few trans women seem to be extremely masculine in their interests. Within our filter bubble, people have similar levels of status, so they can be smart but not charismatic or charismatic but not smart. the non-verbal. She pointed out that there are a couple widely-used kinds of IQ test. > (which are around 80% to 90%; the authors are embarrassed by this, and in a later study suggest they might just have been bad at determining who in their sample did or didnt have autism. (2) Genes associated with autism arent being selected for Social rituals are incredibly important though, humans are social animals. (2) genes that promote autism are being selected for This can lead to bullying and social isolation, which in the long term can cause depression and the failure to learn social customs. I wonder what human spoken language would be like if that kind of ability were universal. But one of his trainers actually had an explanation: A lot of people who casually work out dont exercise all of their muscles equally, so even if they appear to be as strong as him, there could be some muscles that arent as developed as others. We have another child who shows no autistic traits. I feel like unless your definition of normal includes non-highly intelligent this is just so far from true. We're always hiring talented programmers, traders, and researchers and have internships and fulltime positions in New York, London, and Hong Kong. Ive only found one paper that takes this model completely seriously and begins speculating on the nature of the foundation. This confuses me a little. With more aggressive screening for such things, we would see a much smaller diagnosis gap. For all his skepticism in some areas, Scott is remarkably accepting of the overall conceptual framework of psychiatric and psychological diagnosis despite its glaring philosophical flaws, which have been pointed out by many (see e.g. ASD has no reliable early predictor, no unitary developmental course, no unitary life outcome, no unitary recurrence risk, no unitary pattern of BAP features, and no standard homogeneous subgroups. Insofar as autism has a coherent definition, it is a category that embraces a variety of behavioral and neural processing anomalies. These are just three randomly-selected studies; there are too many to be worth listing. I dont know why, but my prior is that the mothers age matters more. What is going on? He taught himself the alphabet before he was 1 year old. The COVID-19 Forecasting Project at the University of Oxford is making advanced pandemic simulations of 150+ countries available to the public, and also offer pro-bono forecasting services to decision-makers. My wife is autistic. Its a small sample (156) and its 10-14 year olds, not adults. The DSM-5 change was a mistake in my view because high functioning autism and AS genuinely seem to be quite different in structure, and it seems as though there were some low level political motivations for folding them together (see upthread). Perhaps something similar but more extreme is true of autism: maybe autistic people are more highly represented at both ends of the IQ distribution. Except that from the sound of it, the IQ/autism risk genes are. I havent been keeping up.) That said, I too doubt the extreme male brain hypothesis in a general sense, although it may be true in a more limited sense (where autism consists of more masculine features for certain parts of the brain, but not all of them). Under the DSM-5, autism is characterized by persistent deficits in social communication and interaction across multiple contexts, as well as restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities. Check out their free anti-anxiety guide here. Intelligence seems much more similar to personality than height in terms of complexity and diversity of manifestations. the Council for Evidence-Based Psychiatry in the UK on the lack of validity of diagnostic categories in psychiatry http://cepuk.org/unrecognised-facts/diagnostic-system-lacks-validity/). The Vision Of Vilazodone And Vortioxetine. For example, the experience of people who are blind at birth and then are given sight as an adult vs. those who lost vision as a child and then have their sight restored as an adult. [Thanks to Marco DG for proofreading and offering suggestions]. A couple of things about her birth stand out when comparing the two with the other children. Six months later, the child was cured. Giving What We Can is a charitable movement promoting giving some of your money to the developing world or other worthy causes. But many do it for positive outcomes versus negative pressure, which is how I interpreted your question. Assuming that intelligence is neither positively nor negatively correlated with social skills, that means 1% of those 75 million people would also be in the top percentile for social aptitude, for a total of 750,000 people. Are you sure any of that is a real thing? The fact that nobody has noticed and studied an effect in a subgroup is evidence that the subgroup does not have a large effect. Possible metaphor: overclocking your computer a bit makes it better (faster), but push it too far and you start getting weird random crashes and end up getting less work done overall. Ill share some info that might or might be helpful, since its just an anecdote. This is a common situation, but not with many genes of small effect. He has the making of a superb engineer. no IQb + hgl: very low IQ, non-autistic mental disorders. There is another problem: Giftedness also increases empathy, which in the wrong environment can be a bad thing. But extra cash helps pay for contest prizes, meetup expenses, and me spending extra time blogging instead of working. Yes their interests and opinions are often eccentric, but they are self-aware of this and do not have problems navigating everyday interactions. By and large, they find conversations with non-genius people extremely boring, because they can predict exactly what the other person will say long before he says it. I dont think there was much correlation at all with years of formal education, and the paths their lives and careers took are almost unimaginable now. So the genes are a correlation but not a cause of the autism, which is due to factors incidentally related to the high IQ, for example the advanced age of the parents? And an article by John Elder Robison pointing out that most of our data on autistic people come from children and the extreme cases. If its just intelligence is good up to some point, then you get autism, how do you explain intelligence sometimes going way past that point without autism?

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